With Lok Sabha elections inching closer, DMK president MK Stalin is leaving no chance to attack the ‘fascist’ BJP-led central government and the ‘power hungry and corrupt’ AIADMK regime in Tamil Nadu, terming their coming together for the polls as blatant opportunism.
In an interview to CNN-News18, Stalin reiterates his demand for Rahul Gandhi as Prime Minister, launches his strongest attack yet at Prime Minister Narendra Modi and shares why he is not ready to accept actor Kamal Haasan as a politician. Excerpts:
You started your campaign in Thiruvarur, which is the birthplace of Kalaignar. It is the first election in 50 years when Kalaignar is not there. What do you feel? What is the mood of the people of Tamil Nadu this time?
I started my election campaign in Kalaignar's birthplace, Thiruvarur. Kalaignar was elected as an MLA, twice by the people of Thiruvarur. In the past elections, Kalaignar won that seat with a huge margin. I planned on starting my campaign from there and last week I started from Thiruvarur. Election mood is something that doesn't set in all of a sudden. The mood sets in gradually, step by step. In the final days you have emotions, speed and tension. But this time, I saw emotions in people right from the start. The reason is because of the AIADMK government in Tamil Nadu led by Edappadi Palaniswami and Prime Minister Narendra Modi's fascist government at the Centre. I realised, and saw that in people, that they are waiting for these two governments to go out of power.
You're saying people have made up their mind. They have decided to send a lesson to the Edappadi government and Modi's government. What gives you that confidence? Why are people angry, in your opinion?
Even when Jayalalitha was in power, there were setbacks and corruption in the government. But after her death, the corruption has increased and this has made people angry. Similarly, whatever Modi promised, before becoming the Prime Minister hasn't been fulfilled. He is constantly touring abroad, he doesn't worry about the people of the country, he doesn't think about the problems of the people. It is clear that people are very angry with both of these governments. Generally, people in rural spaces and villages are the ones who never know the name of the PM. But this time, when I travelled across Tamil Nadu, the moment people heard the name Modi, I saw people getting angry.
Would it be right to say that the AIADMK has also fixed up an alliance this time? They have the BJP, they also have the PMK and other smaller parties. If you add their vote share, at least on paper, they seem like a formidable alliance. And you have the DMK, Congress and other smaller parties. What makes you confident that you can overcome the alliance arithmetic on the other side?
As for the DMK, this is not an alliance/coalition that has been formed solely for the elections. In the past two to three years, parties like the Congress, DMK, communist parties, MDMK, VCK and IUML have come together and have constantly opposed these two political parties. This is what has turned into an election alliance. At the same time, the alliance that has been formed by the AIADMK is an opportunist alliance. More than calling it an election alliance, it is an alliance that has been born out of fear. The manner in which the BJP has put the AIADMK under pressure and influence is that it has misused the agencies to build this alliance. Therefore, it is not an alliance with principles.
It is interesting you say that central government has used the CBI, ED and the fear of corruption cases against the AIADMK to force this alliance. Nationally, you must have seen the BJP is running a campaign saying 'Main Bhi Chowkidar'. Chowkidar as in a security guard. Guard against corruption. How would you respond to that campaign?
In the current government in Tamil Nadu, chief minister’s relatives, accomplices, in the way of commissions, have looted thousands of crores. On behalf of the DMK, RS Bharati, the party's legal counsel, has filed a case on all this with all evidence. The high court judge, who was investigating the case, realised that there are wrongdoings and directed for a CBI inquiry. Meanwhile, they got a stay order that CBI should not investigate the case. On similar lines, there have been such cases on multiple ministers. The BJP government has been protecting all this. This is something the people have realised clearly.
So when BJP says there are ‘chowkidar’ against corruption, you do not agree? You don't agree they are a corruption-free party or that their allies are corruption-free because that is what the PM and everybody at the central government seem to give the impression that the other side is corrupt, we're not corrupt.
Definitely. There is no doubt about it. Today, when Rahul Gandhi (Congress president) has been levelling charges of corruption on Modi, everything is clear. We only look at him as a PM who serves corporate interests and interests of rich businessmen. He came to power by saying he will get away with corruption. But there are instances of corruption that are happening right in front of him, news with evidence, cases of corruption that have been registered in the high court, cases of corruption that have been directed to CBI inquiry — which have been done by the very party (AIADMK) that his party has allied with. This implies that PM Modi is a selfish man. People here and his allies are putting in efforts to help him save his seat of power.
You were the first leader to propose Rahul Gandhi's name as prime minister. What made you do that? And what is the response you've got?
I did not say anything new. As far as Tamil Nadu's history is concerned, when Indira Gandhi was facing elections, Kalaignar had called on her, he had coined a slogan for Indira to become the PM and eventually she came to power. The next time there was an alliance when Sonia Gandhi was heading the Congress, Kalaignar again coined a slogan that Indira's daughter-in-law should become the PM. Though the Congress came to power, Sonia Gandhi voluntarily refused to become the Prime Minister and that is why Manmohan Singh became the PM. Similarly, in Kalaignar's legacy and way of thinking, I proposed that Rahul Gandhi should become the PM. As far as Tamil Nadu is concerned, this is the feeling and this is the truth.
But why do you believe that it wasn't received well by other parties in UP and Bihar? Do you feel people are still not accepting Rahul Gandhi's leadership fully?
There are chief ministers of certain states who welcomed it. There are leaders from certain states like Sharad Pawar in Maharashtra, HD Deve Gowda in Karnataka who accepted it. There are some who have accepted it, but aren't able to say it because of the compulsion of local political conditions. Maybe, once the general elections end completely, there will be a situation where they will be able to tell. I have that hope and belief that situation will come. As far as Tamil Nadu is concerned, I said that in the impression that the knowledge of the prime ministerial candidate will be useful during the elections and that is what is going to happen. This is the truth.
We've recently seen Priyanka Gandhi start her campaign for Congress. What do you think of her campaigning?
Their family itself is a Congress union. Be it Motilal Nehru, Jawaharlal Nehru, Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, Rahul Gandhi and following that today we have Priyanka Gandhi. The DMK, right at the start, when Priyanka was given party responsibility, unconditionally welcomed the move.
One of the other things nationally that the BJP and the Prime Minister keep talking about is dynastic politics. In Congress, it is a dynasty. Even in the DMK, you're the son of the legendary leader Dr Kalaignar. They claim the BJP is not a dynast party. How do you respond to that, politically?
I have been saying this constantly. The DMK, fundamentally, forges alliances with parties on the basis of the Common Minimum Programme. We did that during our alliance with the BJP and we're doing the same thing, right now, in our alliance with the Congress. There is no change in this.
You released the party manifesto two-three days ago. You said initially that loans of small and medium farmers will be waived off. On Thursday you decided loans of all farmers will be waived off. We're in the Kaveri Delta. Farmers from here came till Delhi and knocked on the door of the Prime Minister and all government doors. But they did not get much help. My question to you is, is loan waiver a good decision? Tamil Nadu government is already under a debt of 3 to 4 lakh rupees. If you waive off farmer loans completely, where will the state get the money from?
Farmers are the backbone of a country. Only when the farmers live in comfort, only when their minds are at peace, will this country get food on their plates. That is the situation. For such farmers, this is not new. Previously, in the DMK government, farmers were given free electricity. After that, Kalaignar had given an assurance during elections that farmer loans worth Rs 7,000 crore would be waived off. When he gave that assurance, people like us were also doubtful — how could we waive off loans worth Rs 7,000 crore? But once Kalaignar was elected to power, the first thing he did was sign the order directing the waiver of farmer loans worth Rs 7,000 crore. Under the current government, a lot of farmers have committed suicide. There have been constant demonstrations.
As if demonstrations in Chennai and all over Tamil Nadu were not enough, the farmers protested in Delhi against the central government and demonstrated just to be able to get to meet the PM. There were different types of demonstrations. Even then, Modi did not extend any word of comfort or assurance to the farmers. This is the situation of the PM. In this manifesto, we even proposed that we will announce a separate budget for farmers. On these lines, we announced that loans of small and marginal farmers will be waived off. When I started my campaign, and because I started it in the Delta region, farmers and even political leaders came and met me. They suggested that instead of only small and marginal farmers, all farmers are expecting such loan waivers. Only if this is done it will be good, they said. After that I consulted and introduced a change that all farmer loans will be waived and released it.
But this time they say treasury (exchequer) is empty, primarily because industries and investments aren't coming to Tamil Nadu. What are you going to do about that?
We've proposed policies and plans for that as well. Job generation has been focused upon. Industries and investments will be given importance and we will work for it.
Another point you've made in the manifesto is about NEET exam. A lot of people did not like the NEET exam in Tamil Nadu. You've said you will cancel it, but then how will students from Tamil Nadu compete nationally?
We're certain that education in a state should be suited to the circumstances of the state. This NEET exam in Tamil Nadu is not going to benefit those from lower and middle-class families, and instead, will be detrimental. Because of this exam, there are potential dangers that can arise because students won't be able to enroll in medical programmes and become doctors. We've been working and struggling to put an end to all this. I have spoken about this multiple times in the Assembly. I spoke about bringing a solution to this issue and all parties accepted it. AIADMK introduced it and passed it in the Assembly. We supported it unconditionally. Just because they are an opposition party, we did not oppose it.
A solution to this is imperative. We've decided on this twice and have sent it to Delhi. But they haven't even asked what happened to it. That is why we've proposed in our manifesto that we will find a solution for this as soon as we're elected to power. But, the AIADMK proposing the same thing is the joke. They haven't even followed up on the issue. Had they had some initiative and determination, a government with 50 MPs could have found a solution to it. But they haven't invested any efforts into this. For them, remaining in power is enough. For them, remaining in power, engaging in corruption and collecting commission is enough. The reason why they're collecting commission is because this is a government without a majority. Every month, every 15 days, the MLAs are given monetary reinforcements. What is happening today is that these MLAs are given money to stay on.
One more thing we've seen in Tamil Nadu politics is cash for votes. We've seen it in many elections in the past. You think this time will it be a different?
We want it to be different. We want the elections to be fair.
So this time no party will give cash for votes? Do you guarantee that?
The news we're getting is that the AIADMK is trying to engage in this business. But a party, on an individual stand, cannot get away with this. Only if the Election Commission deals (EC) with it fully will this be solved. The EC talks about this every time but hasn’t done enough. This is our observation.
They've announced by-polls along with the Lok Sabha elections. Instead of 21, they've announced by-polls in 18 constituencies. In that, how many seats do you expect to win?
Actually, by-polls in all 21 constituencies should have taken place. They have held back elections in three constituencies. Aravakurichi, Thiruparankundram and Ottapidaram by-polls have been stopped. There is no stay in the court. We don't understand why it has been stopped. Just like how the central government has been misusing the ED, the CBI, we fear that the EC is also falling into the trap. That is why we have approached the court demanding that by-polls in all 3 constituencies be held. We're hopeful that we will get a solution for that in two to three days. In this situation, where by-polls will be held in 18 constituencies, we are confident that we will win in all 18 constituencies. In such a situation, the central government in Delhi and the state government in Tamil Nadu will be voted out of power. We are confident of that situation emerging.
Do you say the Edappadi K. Palaniswami (EPS) will not be the CM after elections?
Definitely. If it happens in 21 constituencies, definitely not. If it happens in 18 constituencies, there is a chance he will not become the CM again.
But the AIADMK says if they win in two constituencies, they will survive and remain in power.
They will have to win in five constituencies. As per their calculation, they will need to win in five-seven constituencies, they have a chance to win.
You say they won't even get those five seats?
They will not get. Once they're swept out of Parliament, that coalition will be voted out and there will be changes.
This election will also see some new players who are entering the fray in Tamil Nadu. They say AMMK leader TTV Dhinakaran is your B-team. Is he your B-team?
The problem is not B-team or A-team. He separated from the AIADMK, floated his own party and is going on some different line. There haven't been circumstances that have emerged. Also, there will be no need for all of that.
But his candidates say they will only damage the AIADMK votes.
That is possible. Can I stop that?
What are your thoughts about Kamal Kamal Haasan?
He is a great actor. I have seen him act and I have even appreciated it. He is an actor, that's all. I am not ready to accept him as a politician.
Why? Even he is saying that for the past 60 years only these two Dravidian parties have been ruling Tamil Nadu. He says this is a chance.
Everybody has aspirations. Nobody can stop that. People should accept him. For instance, we've been running these village unions. He says we're copying from him. This is what his politics is. These village unions have been running for ages now. Only after the DMK came to power, it was decided that some village unions should be held on Republic Day and Independence Day. Kalaignar had ordered, directed it and this has been running since then. For the DMK, we don't have to run these village unions to meet people. I travelled across Tamil Nadu even the last time and met people. He has been speaking without any maturity. He has been talking presuming he is some big man.
What are your thoughts on Rajinikanth? He has said he will not contest in the forthcoming elections.
That is his choice. He is a good actor. If he wants to enter politics to serve the people, I welcome it.
But he says he won't contest the elections this time.
That is his choice. We need to ask him why he decided on not contesting.
Do you say there will be a huge change in both the central and the state government after the Lok Sabha elections?
Absolutely. There is no doubt about that.
Are you getting such messages from the people? How is it that you're so confident?
We've seen the kind of results the BJP has faced in states like Madhya Pradesh. Similarly, in Tamil Nadu, when I'd gone to a village union recently, more than anger towards the AIADMK government, the anger against the Modi-led BJP government was more. My opinion is that it will be the same across India.
There are speculations that things might be favourable for the BJP after the Pulwama attack.
My opinion is that the Pulwama attacks should not be used for politics. That Modi government is using it for politics is shameful.
So finally 39 seats in Tamil Nadu, plus one seat in Puducherry. How many seats will you and your allies win?
Our aim is to win all 40 out of 40 seats. That is our hope. We're confident that the DMK alliance will win over 35 seats.
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