Fresh from the controversy over his visit to Finland during the Chikungunya crisis in the national capital, Deputy Chief Minister of Delhi Manish Sisodia spoke to CNN News18 and defended the allegations against the state government.
CNN News18: You had gone to Finland.. at that time Delhi was going through an outbreak of Chikungunyua, Dengue and now we are also getting to hear about Malaria. On the 13th, is is not just that you were not there. The Chief Minister also left, the Health Minister was also not there, Gopal Rai was also not there. Kapil Mishra was the only minister available on that day. In retrospect, do you think that it was a mistake and could have been avoided?
Manish Sisodia: You see first of all, let me underline your introduction to me - 'Finland returned minister'. I am surprised that a minister's going to Finland and returning to India has become a huge benchmark in politics. 'Finland returned minister. On that particular day, for some hours it was like this.
I left in the morning and Satyender Jain arrived in Delhi in the afternoon. It was a matter of hours. We knew this. That I would be leaving in the morning and Satyender would be returning in the afternoon.
So Satyender would be there, Kapil would be there and Gopal Rai is also there in the country and available on phone and part from the seven-eight hours I would be spending on the flight, I would be available on the phone.
CM himself was available on the phone that day. There was no management issue that was not being handled on that day. But it was made into a big issue - as if all issues of corruption, terrorism, violence and hatred were non-issues and the biggest issue was that for 3-4 hours in Delhi, Satyender Jain, Manish Sisodia, Arvind Kejriwal were not there and had they been there, all issues would have been solved.
I agree that when there are six ministers, at any point of time, the more number of ministers are present in Delhi, the more effective the Government will be. We also have a sense of time. He ( Satyender Jain) could have returned at 8 in the morning instead of returning at 1.30 pm in the afternoon.
However, the hue and cry for a gap of two to four hours was highly disproportionate, that if they had been here, things would be alright. But that is not the case. management happens on the phone. Management happens online also. That Jain and Sisodia were not in Delhi was portrayed as the biggest crime in politics.
CNN News18: Delhi has a Chief Minister and a Dy Chief Minister. Do you think it was an ideal situation? Either of you should have been here in Delhi?
Manish Sisodia : This is post-even post mortem. I also feel had Satyender Jain returned in the morning, it would have been better. However, there was no management crisis in those hours when I, Jain or CM were not in Delhi. Our hospitals were already prepared ( to meet requirements of a Dengue ot Chikungunya outbreak).
I had already reviewed steps. The CM had also reviewed the preparations. Satyender Jain was reviewing preparations ever week. In the revenue department, we had held meetings with the DM and SDM. None of us had any idea of the extent to which MCD had failed in taking preventive steps.
CNN NEWS18: Has that come as a shock to you?
Manish Sisodia: We never thought that the MCD would have done nothing. We thought the way we were preparing , they would also be doing the same. We have departments of Revenue. Flood Control, Health - we review preparations in each. I have held at least four meetings in the past three to four months in which I have said that we do not want last moment hue and cry, hospitals should be prepared, there should not be any crisis in the availability of beds. We had even identified places in schools and committee centres to accommodate more beds if necessary. We released more money to the MCD in an extraordinary measure. Despite that there was no preventive action by the MCD. MCD has failed badly.
We all should take responsibility for what happened in Delhi. Why should the citizen of delhi worry about multiplicity of authority.
CNN NEWS18: Exactly: people say, ' humne toh kejriwal ko vote diya' aur ummedein unse hai...
Manish Sisodia: People of Delhi voted for Kejriwal. MCD. Lok Sabha. I too am an aam aadmi. From the perspective of an aam aadmi, why should I get into this labyrinth of multiplicity of authority? That is the responsibility of the government. Being in the government, it is our headache to club all. Therefore when MCD has failed, we should take the responsibility. MCD did not work as much as it could have when it comes to taking preventive steps. Now we will do it.
CNN NEWS18: So you are taking the responsibility for the failure of the MCD and the situation that is there in Delhi?
Manish Sisodia: Absolutely. We can't say, ' Oh we cannot do anything'. If we had an inkling of the extent of MCD's failure we could have done more.
CNN NEWS18: On the 13th, the other thing that went wrong was the CM tweet 'ask the LG, ask the PM'. Obviously, he was angry and he reacted and that sent out a message that we do not have any powers and therefore we are not responsible and you better start asking questions to the LG? I can understand where he is coming from but it politicized the whole issue.
Manish Sisodia: No one of us, any officer or political activist can dare to tell the aam aadmi to go talk to the LG. When media asks, especially that section of the media which says 'Arvind Kejriwal ko apni aukaat mein rehna chahiye. Arvind Kejriwal ko samajhna chahiye woh kis rajya ke minister hain. After the high courts judgement look at the tweets of many journalists who say, at least now Arvind Kejriwal should know his limits. What kind journalism is this? On one hand they say that Arvind Kejriwal should stay within his limits, he is the Chief Minister of a quarter of a state and, on the other hand they are the ones who ask why is he not controlling the MCD and the Delhi police , why is he not taking responsibility for the whole world. They need to be given an answer.
CNN NEWS18: You agree then that as an elected Government , which also got a massive mandate, it is the AAP government which is not just responsible but also accountable regardless of all the hurdles you face. Is that an acknowledgement?
Manish Sisodia: It is not an acknowledgement it is acceptance. We have accepted this challenge. It is only now that we are in power. When we did not have any power we were fighting for these issues. Even today we have to fight for these issues with whatever power we have.
CNN NEWS18: By constantly asking questions of the LG are you trying to make him more accountable and take more responsibility?
Manish Sisodia: Rights come with duties. I always tell the LG that he has the DDA, the Delhi police.. I have advised him – he should be looking into the kind of corruption that exists amongst SHOs. Plots and acres of land is under arbitration in courts because your people take bribes. LG has to understand that rights should come with duties. You cannot just claim that I am an administrator - you have duties you, should also have some feelings.
CNN NEWS18 Do you feel that LG doesn’t express that kind of responsibility towards Delhi?
Manish Sisodia: LG is not an issue at all. Issue is Modiji . He always talks about federalism we extended our full cooperation to him we did not even ask for money. please remove the administrative blockages. We will make Delhi the cleanest city . We will set such high standards in health and education that it can become a model for the whole world. But he follows the gujrat model of governance that is crush every voice taht speaks against you by hook n crook. He has brought that model to Delhi . Arunachal and uttrakahnd are examples of how he does not have the ability to tolerate political opponents. He doesnt believe in democracy he only talks about federalism does not believe in it.he knows only to crush voices.
CNN NEWS18: Critics will say that AAP to deflect attention from itself is attacking the PM?
Manish Sisodia: Please tell me why is the Modi govt sitting on all our bills. If it is being done without his knowledge he is a failed Prime Minsiter and if he is doing it knowingly then it is proof of the kind of democracy he believes in.
CNN News18 People are not questioning your Finland trip. They are questioning the timing of your trip
Manish Sisodia: Delhi once again I will say that 26 lakh students are being taught in Delhi. 5 to 7 lakhs are getting good education including those studying in private schools and good government schools. The rest 20 lakhs have no careers to speak of. Is that not a crisis? Because media says one issue is a crisis, is the other not a crisis? I would say there is no bigger crisis than that confronting Delhi's Health and Education systems. For me health and education both are undergoing crisis.
CNN NEWS18: People are questioning the timing of your trip. Maybe that could have been reworked and avoided?
Manish Sisodia: Had planned this a month ago. Otherwise Satyender Jain was there. Kapil was there. Satyender Jain is the health minister. We already had all preparations in place. And it seems that by going to Finland, I have committed a great sin and even more so by having an ice cream there. In Finland people drink wine. They offered me some. I am a teetotaler and therefore I said no. I spoke with their children and wives about their educational system because they have a first hand experience of education in that country and compare it with the system in India. They are showing photographs of that and calling 'five star gala'. Where are you taking the discourse of the country. At least people who know the issues confronting the country should not get involved in this.
CNN NEWS18: That is because of the image that the AAP has projected and promised when it came to power?
Manish Sisodia: It is our claim that we will practice a life and politics of simplicity and we do that. We do not demand high security, but the problem is some people sitting somewhere else are trying to define our simplicity and trying to tell us what to do? How can you have an ice cream? How can you sit and eat with this people, you are there to work. Where did they get this definition from? Do you know who these people are? The people who say that we had a lot of expectations of you? There are some people who, at the time of elections, were against us and were spouting poison. I won't name them. But the big so-called writers that we had great expectations of you but even then they were against us and are against us even now. That's fine. But then don't try to say that you had a lot of expectations.
CNN NEWS18: What about the speculation that the CM will move to Punjab and why, if it is untrue, why are people from the party and government quiet on it. Why can't they come forward and say ' it is not true'.
Manish Sisodia: The problem is in our country the media loves to decide what our party should do, define simplicity for us. That is all decided by journalists sitting in the studios. The moment a politician leaves a party, the speculation begins. They even decide his date of joining and in what position?
CNN NEWS18: Is there a serious possibility of the Chief Minister moving to Punjab?
Manish Sisodia : The people of Delhi have chosen Arvind Kejriwal as their Chief Minister. Now whether Arvind Kejriwal becomes Chief minister of Punjab, Goa or Gujarat, that is your speculation. Why are you now asking whether he will become the CM of Goa or Gujarat or MP. In some sections of the media, the decision, it seems has been made.
CNN NEWS18: So it is not true. It is futile speculation. It is not going to happen?
Manish Sisodia : Delhi these are baseless speculations. They make up stories and send Kejriwal to Punjab, to Goa. If that’s what media wants to do they can, but don’t put words into our mouth.
CNN NEWS18: Uri saw the most horrific attack. It is a difficult moment for the country and all political leaders whether they are in Government or opposition. Of course, it is the PM's responsibility. But every political leader or citizen looking at the attack is worried about how to respond. What is your response to that?
Manish Sisodia: Violence and terror should always be met with a strong hand, and not just in your heart but in your actions too. But at the same time, you need to solve your internal crisis. I think, in the past one and half years, the problems in Kashmir have escalated because of political reasons. Because the kind of unrest we have seen in the past two or three months and I have covered Kashmir but this kind of unrest I have never seen. There have been moments like this but very few. It is after 26 years that we are seeing these kinds of moments which is a big failure. It is a political failure. The central government and the government of Jammu and Kashmir need to do some trust building for the people of kashmir. They need to think of them as their own. The people of Kashmir need to feel that the Government is their own. They have ended this trust.
What Pakistan did, killing the people of innocent families. As a nation we are losing confidence. Yesterday, it happened in Uri. Tomorrow it might happen in Delhi. We saw it happening at Pathankot. France is seeing this kind of attacks in their schools. Florida is seing these kind of attacks in their malls. What are we doing? It is a big failure. The Central Government is responsible for this failure. Modi ji believes in 'show-off' politics', they need to get into nitty gritty of things. Modi is a good brand but where are the nitty gritties. Problems don't get solved by eating Biriyani, he has failed in the minor details. AAP is a very small party but all political parties should meet and talk. Congress party has its wealth of experience, BJP has their own experience and our party has a new way of working. We should talk about what Kashmir needs, how we should talk to Pakistan and the confidence building should take place.
CNN NEWS18: If the Prime Minister takes steps, as the central government because now it is the need of the hour that the GOI should send some sort of message so that people at least would understand that it may not happen again? Will you strengthen the Prime Minister's hands in his efforts?
Manish Sisodia: The Government of India is not just Modi. The Government of India is my country's government. The Prime Minister is my country's Prime Minister. Whatever be the name of my party, and whatever be the name of their party and no matter what they do if they are doing it for the betterment of the country and taking the country along with them, by talking with all political parties and hammer a consensus - he should be supported regardless of political considerations. Of course, we will support him.
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